The Mastering Podcast

Is This AI’s iPhone Moment? | Builder AI’s Collapse + Apple’s AI Gamble: Mastering Technology with Lucas Meadowcroft and Don Sanka Small

• The Mastering Team • Season 1 • Episode 12

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Our hosts, Don Sanka Small and Lucas Meadocroft, explore AI's potential "iPhone moment" as OpenAI and Johnny Ive collaborate on what could be the next revolutionary technology interface, while also examining practical AI implementation for businesses and the educational transformation needed to bridge the growing skills gap.

Are we witnessing AI's "iPhone moment"? The tantalising partnership between OpenAI and design legend Johnny Ive promises to revolutionise how we interact with artificial intelligence through hardware. With OpenAI already dominating the software mindshare, this collaboration could deliver the next quantum leap in technology interfaces - something we haven't experienced since the iPhone's introduction 15 years ago.

Yet amid the excitement, caution is warranted. The shocking Builder AI scandal reveals how a $1.4 billion company deceived top-tier investors by masking 700 human developers behind their supposedly "automated" platform. This Theranos-like revelation underscores the critical importance of transparency and proper due diligence in today's AI gold rush.

For business leaders navigating this landscape, our practical advice cuts through the hype: focus on your specific pain points rather than chasing shiny objects. The most effective AI implementations start by identifying and addressing your team's frustrations. We've seen construction firms and law practices transform multi-day administrative processes into minutes-long operations using accessible tools that cost as little as $50. These implementations don't replace your team - they give them superpowers.

The skills gap remains substantial, with McKinsey reporting that only 17% of executives feel prepared for AI integration. This explains the emergence of innovative education models like the MBA in Artificial Intelligence, designed to deliver applied, project-based learning that creates immediate business value.

We also examine Apple's recent WWDC25 announcements, questioning whether the tech giant can reclaim its innovative edge after seemingly focusing more on stability than breakthrough advancements. Their continued promises around AI capabilities have largely failed to materialise, raising concerns about their position in the innovation race.

Whether you're looking to implement AI solutions, upskill your team, or simply stay informed of rapid technological change, now is the perfect time to engage. Subscribe to our weekly tech deep dives and reach out if you're ready to harness AI's transformative potential for your business.

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Lucas:

Focus on your pain points in your business. Don't get caught up in these shiny toys. The entire education space is about to be turned upside down. If they're not moving towards what you're talking about now, the entire space is left behind.

Don:

Builder AI valued at 1.4 billion, and it turns out most of the automated platform was actually powered by 700 human developers.

Lucas:

I don't think you could go to university today and learn AI.

Don:

Welcome back to the Mastering Podcast. This is our bonus series, mastering Technology, where we break down the latest headlines in AI innovation and tech trends shaping the future. I'm your host, don Small, joined again by our resident tech entrepreneur, co-host Lucas Metacroft.

Lucas:

Good to be here again, mate. Looking forward to this one. Honestly, the pace of change this week has been absolutely insane. Super wild Feels like we're jumping decades ahead every single day now.

Don:

Let's kick this off. Lucas. You said to me before that you subscribe to five different newsletters. Can you kick us off by saying what's hitting your radar this week?

Lucas:

It's been absolutely nonstop.

Don:

I say Google, Google.

Lucas:

IO. But then you've got the Apple conversation we're about to have, then you've got the OpenAI Sam Alton conversation. It's just all happening at the same time. I think everyone's racing to be the best right. So lots happening in a very short period of time.

Don:

Yeah well, let's start with that. Let's unpack that right. First, that hardware. Tease the pendant. Is it a pin? Are we getting closer to real AI integration in our daily lives? The bromance, the highly produced presentation that was done by two of the most charismatic people in technology right now. There's something bubbling and I'm super excited to see what that something is right I guess, we won't know for three or six months or sometime in the next year.

Don:

Yeah, so this is the video. You can see they're building up to something and we are walking towards this brand new future, and you can see the bromance, you can see the partnership.

Lucas:

We haven't had a new interface or a new way of working with technology for a very long time. The last major revolution we're talking about the iPhone that was like 15 years ago. It feels like a long time ago. So I think there's definitely something bubbling in this space and I can't wait to see what that looks like. And we talk about IO. Like, io is input-output from a technology point of view and that's information coming in, information going out. So there's got to be a connection between hardware and software here, definitely in this layer.

Don:

Some people are saying that this new collab is the iPhone moment for artificial intelligence. What are your thoughts? I'd love to hear. Do you agree? Do you disagree? Do you think we're almost there?

Lucas:

Let's go. Maybe I think we will be there in six months from now. What we're still missing is a killer use case, so there's a really great statement from both Oldman and Johnny Ives around this, but essentially, we've been missing this interface from a hardware software integration perspective for a very long time. It's completely outdated. I believe that's definitely bang on and there's a huge opportunity in this space that no one's really killed it just yet.

Don:

So it's definitely something coming in around the corner.

Lucas:

And I think this is what iPhone did amazingly well a long time ago and we haven't really had that next level of innovation for a long time. So I think this is definitely the moment in what's called prediction six months from now.

Don:

Well, talking about around the corner, this highly produced cinematic. You know, whatever they do, I think marketing is changing. This is the new mode of marketing. When we had Steve Jobs present the iPhone, he got on stage, talked about the technology and he just delivered that aha moment that blew everyone away. We could not even understand what was coming. We couldn't even get our heads around what was being presented, whereas now we're being teased through this highly produced cinematic moment. Whatever it is, whatever IO becomes I think it needs to be a merger between hardware becomes. I think it needs to be a merger between hardware voice sensors, privacy and deliver real value. It has to be what the separation that iPhone did from everyone else to how they sort of took that quantum shift in technology. It can't just be another fancy variable. It's not going to land if it is.

Lucas:

I 100% agree. It's got to be that full integration layer between hardware and software and bring that into us. I guess how we live with that on a daily basis, right? So what I love about this let's call it conversation of what this becomes in six months from now. But OpenAI already owns essentially the share of the ecosystem of people using AI. Like you go to the barbecue I think I mentioned this you talk to your friends and you ask are you using AI? And they go yeah, I use it every day. Or what are you using ChatGPT? It's the only thing that people talk about. You know ChatGPT AI. So I think we live you know, we already live with it from that perspective on a daily basis. This is next level and this is like a full integration hardware conversation. This is going to be absolute game changer and I can't wait to see what Johnny Ives and Altman bring out in the coming months.

Don:

So what you're saying is OpenAIR already owns the software, mindshare. Now it's about owning the body and how we live AI every day. I agree, if anyone can do it, it's going to be Altman, and now the genius of Johnny Ivey joining the team, so let's hope Going from potential to a shocking story. I want to pivot to this story. I'm still trying to get my head around it. Builder AI valued at $1.4 billion, and it turns out most of the automated platform was actually powered by 700 human developers. An Indian company. Yeah, it's crazy.

Lucas:

It is essentially crazy. I relate this to the Theranos space. Right, let's call this Theranos 2.0. Well, ai, it's really much in that hype selling perspective. People actually really understand and figure out. How does technology actually work? So they sold an amazing story. How does technology actually work? So they sold an amazing story and I guess people just believed them right? This shows how important transparency is and governance when it comes to AI.

Don:

Microsoft, softbank, even some of the top tier investors got played. I think there's a lesson here for a lot of founders and investors If you don't do your due diligence, you're just rolling the dice and that's the bottom line. It's an era of make-believe through, whether it's AI or whether it's really good storytelling. Silicon Valley was fake it till you make it, and it's gone to a different level now with the technology that's been made available to us. So I don't know if this is going to get worse or if it's going to get better, but if you don't have better transparency and better governance around AI, in my opinion it's going to get worse.

Lucas:

It's the wild, wild west. Right now, you can do whatever you want.

Don:

Let's talk about practical. If you're a business owner or an executive, where do you start with AI? Because clearly most aren't ready and there's all of these new technologies and new companies and builder AI is coming. How do you protect yourself from this? How do you get?

Lucas:

start simple and start, in my honest opinion, focus on your pain points in your business. Don't get caught up in these shiny toys, don't get caught up in all this hype around AI. Just really go internal in your business and focus on the pain points. Talk to your staff members, talk to you, know what do they love doing, what do they don't like doing. Really figure out where the frustration comes from and, in my personal opinion, focus on that first, because then you don't get swept away with what's possible and you can actually solve something immediately. There are amazing tools that you can get off the shelf for $50 and create massive impact in your business and do that from an experimental point of view. But really focus on that frustration and just solve that one pain point first.

Don:

In my personal opinion, and if you don't have someone internally who gets this, you should hire a consultant or upskill your team. If you don't, your competitors will. I think that's where it's coming to. So let's just extend on that a little bit too. Lucas, you work with a lot of businesses through Crofty. When should a business leader put their hands up and say, yeah, I need some outside help or bring in outside help?

Lucas:

Great question and I guess we get asked this a lot, right, honestly, when things feel like they're moving too quickly and you don't know how to keep up, it's a really good sign you really want to push the boundaries and you want to expand nationally and internationally.

Lucas:

When things are moving fast, it's like, oh my God, this is too overwhelming. It's a really good place to get us in. We've also seen the opposite direction, where you know you need to start cutting costs because of the way the economy is going, but you know that hyper-focus, hyper-growth is a really good starting point. We're seeing this if I pinpoint a pain point right, we're seeing this massively, say, in the construction industry, where people you do a quote or you do an estimation and typically it takes sometimes three days to get that quote or estimation out. It's very much back to the old way or the old school way of doing it pen and paper and so you can actually turn that around really fast and actually get those quotes out within minutes rather than three days. We've seen this in law firms. It's just anything that's administrative a huge opportunity, and we already know there's a better way of doing it right. So why don't you just start?

Don:

So, just being super focused, do you have any examples where you can give us where you've had to step in this?

Lucas:

is what we do on a daily basis. We're doing a lot of like quoting, estimating I just spoke about. We're doing a lot of tender writing. So typically a tender can take three weeks to six weeks and you typically have to bring, say, 15 different team members involved to be able to write a tender, look at a previous tender, put together and write a new tender. A lot, a lot of hours we can we've done this for a few clients now but essentially bring that, say, three week or six week process down to one hour to four hours. So it's just like it dramatically drives down the cost to even put a tender together.

Lucas:

And the accuracy is huge. You know 95, 98%. It's incredible. That's, I guess, a larger example. But if I talk about the quota restoration, they're now getting quotes and estimations out within two to three minutes when it was taking them like three days because of all the back and forth and communication and figuring out all the data and collecting all that data. We can stream that process to a few minutes now. So it just allows companies to one quote faster, win jobs quicker and be better than their competitor.

Don:

So when people talk about AI taking your jobs, it's not really about replacing your team. It's about giving your team superpowers. I think that's where we're going.

Lucas:

I love that. I'm going to use that quote, Don they're definitely giving your team superpowers. I guess I love to talk about job satisfaction, right, and I've never spoken to someone and I've now interviewed more than 10,000 people. I've never spoken to someone and they say I love doing the administrative work, I love doing the admin grunt work. No one's ever said that to me ever. They typically are there in that role because they love doing what they do and what they are amazing at and what their expertise is. They don't want to do the grunt work, so why would you?

Don:

Imagine if you can get better at what you love doing and you can get more out of the people producing what they love doing. But there's another big trend that I want to cover. It's a skills gap. With AI coming, there's this report that came out from McKinsey that said that there's only 17% of our executives are prepared for AI. That's a massive skills gap.

Lucas:

Totally, and on top of that, we're in Australia, right, but I'm not sure about that. We're in Australia, right, but I'm not sure about US stats. But in Australia, 40% of Australians are only thinking about adapting or embracing AI. There's a massive opportunity in this space, right, and so I'd love to dive into what you guys are doing at Dessert and how can you help with this skills gap, because I believe, if you have an MBA in AI, you apply this in real business and real projects and real outcomes. This will change the entire opportunity, I believe, for everyone.

Don:

There's a huge economic shift coming. In the next five years there's going to be $15.7 trillion added to the global economy. That's absolutely mind-boggling. So that's exactly why we've created the MBA in artificial intelligence. It's designed to be applied up to date and fully relevant to the challenges that the leaders are facing right now and, unlike traditional MBAs that rely on outdated studies and exams, this program is 100% project-based. That means everything you learn gets applied to your current role or business in real time. You're not writing essays on what Coca-Cola did in 1986. You're solving today's problems, today's AI challenges that are relevant to your industry and to the job that you're doing.

Don:

So we've partnered with top institutions like the University of East London Rome Business School to deliver these programs 100% online. We are not an online university and that's one of the biggest misconceptions. We are working with these large universities to deliver this very unique program, giving global access and real-world relevance to our students. The other part is we also integrate live industry mentoring, temporary AI tools and leadership projects to our students. The other part is we also integrate live industry mentoring, temporary AI tools and leadership projects. So you live with not just knowledge but also with capability.

Don:

And the best part is no exams You'd love this, lucas, and you know we do lectures. They're all delivered in a virtual environment. You don't get marked for attendance or penalized for non-attendance. All of the sessions are recorded, but you still get that real world university experience, but with allclass faculty, a global peer network. We've now got over 300 global leaders in our faculty, from five Australian prime ministers to Goldie Hawn on the other end of the spectrum, and the biggest thing is making it accessible for students and breaking those barriers for entry. And the next for our ai mba for the university of east london's are going to be starting in september and we've got some amazing scholarships if anyone's interested. So that's a bit of a plug for dessert and university of east london it's an absolute game changer, man.

Lucas:

I wish this was around when I, uh, essentially failed school. I did not want to do in life because I didn't have a traditional education as such right, and when I was going off to university and becoming a doctor or a lawyer or whatever, I was like I just want to be in tech. So, yeah, I think it's an absolute game changer and a huge opportunity to do. It's the real world on the spot learning is what I think is so important, because I don't think you could go to university today and learn AI. It's just like what are they teaching you from six months ago? I can't keep up with what happens on a daily basis, so how would you put that into a program as such? So I think that real world on the spot learning is absolutely crucial.

Don:

Yeah, and that's the thing, right. Like with the traditional framework model of education, you miss the relevance. You can't keep up with the change that's happening. And exactly what you said when it comes to AI that relevance. You can't keep up with the change that's happening. And exactly what you said when it comes to AI. That's a perfect example of that. You have to have programs that can evolve with the rate of change, and that's what I love about this model.

Don:

It's not just education for the sake of theory, it's education that creates real return. And, on top of that, when you apply these projects into your business as you're going through the program, you're actually creating outcomes. While you're studying, return on investment is from day one, not when you finish Traditional education model is. You finish, you get your certificate, which is a hand wavy sort of to say that you have now, you're now qualified to get a job, whereas from day one you start showing that return on investment not just to yourself, to your business. We've had clients who spend tens of thousands of dollars on consultants to explore the same capabilities you're learning in this MBA. But when your internal leaders are trained to think AI first, that's where real transformation is going to happen If you can do that in a cost effective way that gives you a strategic advantage. That's as you said. That's where we change the game.

Lucas:

My personal opinion, the entire education space is about to be turned upside down. If they're not moving towards what you're talking about now, the entire space is left behind. We have education at our fingertips now. Now we can learn the way we want to learn.

Don:

The thing is a lot of people don't really realize that business education is as important as anything else. We live in a society where productivity is everything. You go to work every day to earn money. You're selling something. If you're not selling a product, if you're not selling a service, you're selling yourself. Doesn't matter whether you're a doctor or whether you're an investment banker. People just hating selling is an old school mentality. It's become everyday model of human society. It's how you do it ethically. It's how you collaborate with other people. If we can teach more people how to do it properly, the better it's going to be, and that's where business education becomes really important and it becomes important to do it properly.

Don:

You know you talk about disruption. We've been disrupting with these models for years and these models have been there. The problem is when you try to challenge the status quo or the old model of thinking, it becomes hard Like one of the biggest challenges we have is the mentality of an average person is if you're not spending enough, you're not getting a good education. That model's changing. If you don't wrap your head around what's happening right now not just with artificial intelligence, education, everything else we're going to be living in a different world in the next five, 10 years. You have to adapt and you have to adopt the new stuff that's coming. I think that's going to be really important.

Lucas:

How fast we're moving. You say five to 10 years, I'm saying two to three years. It's moving incredibly, incredibly quickly, right?

Don:

so I'm being optimistic right, because I'm I'm too old to move that fast. So before we wrap up, the final thing I want to touch on is the big song and dance that apple does once a year wwdc25 we got the new ios. What a huge quantum leaf. They changed the numbers and painted the house clear.

Lucas:

I don't know what that is transparent, call it whatever you want.

Don:

So a coat of paint and a change of numbers that's supposed to get us to spend another few thousand dollars in my opinion I'm hoping I'm correct stability.

Lucas:

You know we've seen a lot of rapid changes in the in the recent times from Apple and everyone in the community has been unhappy because they've tried to move fast. They can't move fast and ship breaks, and so I'm hoping with this latest announcement it means stability. Is there any innovation in the latest announcement? In my opinion, no innovation.

Don:

I'm okay with that if it means we get stability and they can innovate next year onwards but what really surprised me was the doubling down on Siri and the AI announcements that they made last year, which they didn't deliver anything on. Well, what they delivered didn't do much, and then they doubled down on it and then went really hard. Instead of saying we stuffed up, they said we know exactly what we're doing when everyone else has been criticizing them. Is this another Apple moment where they're going to change or prove the rest of the world wrong? Or is this the last hurrah?

Lucas:

When was the last time you heard one of these big giants apologize to the world that they stuffed up? Never. So I don't think you'll ever hear someone apologize. So I don't think you'll ever hear someone apologize. I think their way of saying, in my opinion, we're putting stability in place is them acknowledging they stuffed up.

Don:

That's a good point. There were some good points, though. For me there's a couple of good moments. They didn't introduce some technological advancements that's been in other products that we haven't seen in Apple. So for the Apple ecosystem those new introductions were good the live translation, the call screening, even to the little adjustments they've made in the AirPods with a studio-grade microphone ability whether that's real or not and in camera control through your AirPods. So there's some really good stuff in there, but I think it unfortunately got overshadowed by the fact that they couldn't deliver anything from WWDC24, and they were promising even more in WWDC25. I don't want to go too much into it.

Lucas:

What I think you're talking about, though, is feature enhancements. You're not talking about anything new, right, and I think this last 12 to 18 months has shown that they've got to a size of a company, that they're not focused on innovation. They're focused on, in my opinion, stability.

Lucas:

Let's try and get the community back on board. We don't want to lose our user base to someone else. Get that right. And then I'm really hoping, because I haven't seen anything in the headlines yet. I'm really hoping next year they come out with a massive bang and a game-changing device, or massive feature upgrade or something.

Don:

They usually get two opportunities every year to blow us away. One is the software event, which is the one we just had. Then they have a hardware event, which is where they announce their iPhone, the new iPhones and whatever else they're going to bring out. Let's hope. If they can't be the innovator in software, let's see if they deliver.

Lucas:

I can't see it happening this year. I'm going to call it now and say next year.

Don:

We've covered a lot. We wanted to make this short and sweet. I think we've achieved it. Just going to do a quick wrap up AI's iPhone moment is either coming, or it's already here, or we've already heard the pitch. And is it hype without substance? Builder AI has proven it doesn't really last and it can happen. And then is Apple still in the game? Innovation or are they just copy and paste?

Lucas:

Honestly, I really hope Apple's still in the game. I really hope next year they come back with something amazing. That's my last take. I'll put on the Apple spend.

Don:

Sort of sums up the last couple of weeks or the last month. I really want to do this once a week. Half an hour worth of technology wrap up. I think there's a lot of value, yeah absolutely.

Lucas:

I'm thinking about this, don, and I think it's a big opportunity. I'm diving into these newsletters on a daily basis, watching YouTube I don't know what's coming up, I can't keep up enough but if I could share some insights that I've learned last week to the audience, I think it would be amazing. So, yeah, definitely sign up, subscribe, share this with someone who's also wanting to explore AI, anyone who's still using Internet Explorer, anyone back in the old ages. I'd love to share this conversation with you.

Don:

If you're listening and wondering how to catch up or get ahead, now is the time. It's the perfect opportunity for you to be part of the game, whether it's engaging with a consultant or it's about the MBA or the tools that you're using for the business. Reach out to us.

Lucas:

Yeah, stick around for next week. I'm looking forward to doing a bit of a deep dive.

Don:

Cheers mate.

Lucas:

Cheers. Hope you enjoyed this exciting episode of the Mastering Podcast.

Don:

Cheers, mate, cheers.