Unlock Your Mind: Mastering Mental Health and Breaking Down Stigmas with Dan Hunt

⚠️ Content Warning: This episode includes discussions of mental illness, addiction, trauma, and suicide. Listener discretion is advised.

In this raw and revealing conversation, former NRL star Dan Hunt opens up about his journey from playing 150+ professional rugby league games to founding a national mental health movement that has trained over 500,000 Australians face-to-face.

Growing up in a household marked by domestic violence, Dan found safety, identity, and purpose in rugby league. As his professional career flourished, he maintained the persona of the "happy-go-lucky" teammate while secretly battling inner demons. It wasn't until a devastating Achilles injury in 2010 that his carefully constructed façade began to crumble, leading to self-medication with painkillers, alcohol, and illicit drugs.

Dan shares the pivotal moments that ultimately led to his diagnosis with type 2 bipolar disorder—from his mother's painful observation that he was "becoming his father" to a life-changing conversation with legendary coach Wayne Bennett. Rather than seeing his diagnosis as a setback, Dan describes it as "the books going back on the shelf in chronological order," finally making sense of his thoughts, feelings, and behaviours.

The conversation dives deep into the often-misunderstood distinction between mental health and mental illness, exploring how organisations can move beyond token awareness initiatives to create genuinely supportive environments. Dan's Mental Health Workplace Blueprint offers a framework for identifying psychosocial hazards, implementing real solutions, and treating the causes rather than just the symptoms of mental health challenges.

Most powerfully, Dan reveals his daily practices for mental fitness—ice baths, gratitude, exercise, connection, and regular "check-ups from the neck up" with his psychologist—while emphasising that everyone's journey is unique. For those currently struggling, he offers a heartfelt reminder: "Your struggles do matter... You may not see any light at the end of the tunnel at the moment, but it will pass."

Whether you're managing a mental illness, supporting someone who is, or simply interested in optimising your own mental fitness, this episode offers practical wisdom from someone who's been through the darkness and emerged to help others find their way.

💡 Topics Covered:

• Mental health in elite sport and high-performance environments
• The impact of injury, trauma, and undiagnosed illness
• Transitioning from professional sport to a purpose-driven life
• The difference between mental health and mental illness
• Building mental fitness as part of your daily routine
• Practical strategies for supporting yourself and others

📌 Disclaimer: The information in this episode is for general discussion and storytelling purposes only. It is not intended to replace professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment. If you’re struggling, please seek help from a qualified healthcare professional.

🛟 Support Services (Australia):

• Lifeline – 13 11 14 | lifeline.org.au
• Beyond Blue – 1300 22 4636 | beyondblue.org.au
• Suicide Call Back Service – 1300 659 467 |

Want more? Find us on You Tube, Instagram, X, and TikTok where we share bonus content and engage with our listeners.

Don’t forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review! Your support helps us bring more inspiring stories to life. ❤️

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Mental Health in Sports
• 3:01 Pressures of Professional Sports
• 5:50 Coping Mechanisms
• 14:35 The Mask: Hiding Struggles in the Locker Room
• 18:00 The Importance of Diagnosis and Support
• 22:39 Dan's Football Journey and Upbringing
• 36:51 The Turning Point: Diagnosis and Support
• 49:34 Creating the Mental Health Movement
• 56:57 Workplace Mental Health Blueprint
• 1:02:46 The Importance of Self-Awareness and Sleep
• 1:06:10 The Role of Connection and Support
• 1:11:17 Building Mental Fitness Daily Practices
• 1:17:04 Quickfire Questions
• 1:19:16 Solving Mental Health on a Broader Scale

Transcript

Magnus: 0:00

Coffee or pre-workout.

Dan: 0:02

Coffee and pre-workout.

Magnus: 0:07

Welcome to M26 Fit, the podcast that powers your spirit, mind and body. I'm the host, Magnus Olsson, and on this exclusive episode, we're collaborating with the Mastering Podcast, and I'm joined by co-host Masters, athlete and entrepreneur, Don Sanka and ND NDIS expert, Ryan Shillipay. Today's special guest is a man who knows what it means to battle both on and off the field, From playing over 150 NRL games at the highest level to facing one of life's toughest opponents his own mental health. Today, he's the founder of the mental health movement, leading a national charge to break down stigma, change conversations and create real support where it matters most. I don't know about you, boys, but I'm looking forward to talking about strength, vulnerability and what it truly means to lead from the front. Welcome to the podcast.

Dan: 0:59

Dan. Thank you, gentlemen, I'm very, very grateful for the opportunity and any chance to, I guess, have a real, deep, meaningful conversation around a topic like this. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

Don Sanka: 1:11

And this is a collaboration between M26, fit and Mastering, we thought it would be a really good opportunity for us to get together on this A hundred percent.

Magnus: 1:19

And, dan, if I could start off like you went from playing in front of tens of thousands of fans and then to confronting your own mental health struggles behind closed doors. Do you mind just trying to describe to our listeners a little bit of some of the pressures that are faced by professional sports people today?

Dan: 1:34

Yeah, look, I can only obviously speak personally of myself, but, look, I didn't have the best of upbringing so I ran domestic violence and stuff like that and footy was kind of a place that gave me identity, purpose and belonging so it was kind of all your eggs were in that basket, lucky enough to obviously make the NRL and played an extended period of time in there. But it is around performance. It is around trying to be the best you can be every single day so that you can perform on the field. For that 80 minutes You're obviously it's videoeded and every single thing that you do, either whether it's well or not well is obviously scrutinised, reviewed, and then that's done in front of the whole team and you get your honest feedback.

Dan: 2:18

And then you've got to either build yourself back up or you've got to try and maintain that performance. And then again it's your body, like I wasn't the biggest front rower and I tried to, yeah, go as hard as I could for as long as I could, but your body starts to break down over time. So then it's starting to affect your mental health, the way you think about things. But then look, just like in the workplace, there's 80 minutes on the field, there's training, but players and professional athletes got lives away from professional sport and they've got relationships, they've got finances, they've got grief and loss, they've got their upbringing, they've got all these other things that come with it. So you bring your whole self to work. You bring your whole self onto the field or the pitch or whatever sport that you're playing, so being able to obviously manage all the performance, the body, all that type of stuff, but also have the things off the field in order and in check so that it's not impacting that time in which you are performing.

Dan: 3:12

And the other thing is you don't want to let your teammate down. Specifically, talking about rugby league, you don't want to let yourself down, but look for me, I was managing undiagnosed mental illness at the time. So, yeah, look, some days I was like how am I getting out of bed, let alone stepping onto a rugby league field in front of 45,000 people and performing. So there is a lot of pressure and, as you'll see, some people manage pressure really well. I think experience as well helps you manage that pressure, having good support networks around you, whether that's family, friends, loved ones, or it's your coaching staff, your fellow players, and I was lucky enough to be coached by one of the best in Wayne Bennett for that period of time. So, yeah, everyone obviously handles pressure, deals with pressure differently. But I think the other thing I was only young then, so like I'm not a 40-year-old brain now, and all that experience putting it back when you're 19, 20, you're doing the best with what you've got at that point in time.

Ryan: 4:11

So with that like pressure on the field, did that correlate over into the locker room? Like you said, you had your teammates when you went into that locker room. Did that mask, that kind of facade, kind of come off a little bit and did you talk to the boys about it, or was it very much like it stays on the whole time because you know you obviously want to keep playing, you want to keep showing everyone. You know that high level performance.

Magnus: 4:39

You don't want to show weakness. No, no weakness.

Ryan: 4:42

So did you find even in the locker room. That was still very much yeah, definitely I think.

Dan: 4:47

For for me one of my coping strategies was like back then was wearing the mask. But my mask was the loose guy, the funny guy, loose on the piss, that taking the piss out, everyone doing practical jokes, all that type of stuff. And that was kind of my mask because, yeah, all that that stuff happened from from from my upbringing and not dealing with it, sweeping under the carpet, pretending like it wasn't there. It did affect me and it used to be a bit of a running joke, like my nickname was Bubsy when I played, what still is now, but it was Bubsy because of the big cheeks.

Magnus: 5:16

Tell us the story about that.

Dan: 5:18

The baby face and the big cheeks. I don't have the baby face so much anymore, but I've still got the big cheeks. But that was my nickname and it used to be a running joke. Where was bubsy on the roller coaster? What was bubsy at the top? Go near him. He's good, he's awesome, good time he's ripping in. He'll train hard, play hard, perform well or see at the bottom. Stay away from him. Like I couldn't even hold a conversation with someone and just, and that was just look, that's just how it was.

Dan: 5:41

But for for me, I guess, as a young bloke before you sort of establish yourself as a regular first grader and you've earned the respect of the senior players and all those different things, yeah, you're not going in there. I'm not talking about what happened in my upbringing or shit that was worrying me or what I was thinking and my family and all this type of stuff. I wasn't saying any of that because I thought it was a sign of weakness. I thought, shit, these people want to play with me. I'm supposed to be the tough front roller, taking this team forward and having the tough carries and things like that. Why would they want to play with someone that hasn't got their shit together mentally? And are you going to get re-signed, are you going to get a contract? So all those things. As you're saying, the I did put on the mask and I'm not going to lie, yeah, convinced myself I was good and convinced everyone else around me that I was all good.

Magnus: 6:29

I think people knew something you mentioned that you played under Wayne Bennett. Was Phil Jauncey involved back then?

Dan: 6:35

Yep, yep, phil was there. Yeah, definitely so. Were you a Mozzie? Yeah, I was a Mozzie. No, I was a thinker and a feeler, sorry, okay.

Don Sanka: 6:43

Wendell Saylor was a mozzie. Yeah, can we get a bit of, because we had Phil Johnsey on for one of our episodes.

Dan: 6:49

He's an amazing human being.

Don Sanka: 6:51

He did. Yeah, there's a lot that we learned, but one thing I did not learn is what any of those things meant.

Dan: 6:59

Yeah, I've actually.

Don Sanka: 7:01

Yeah, I've got no idea either.

Dan: 7:02

I'm so glad you asked that I sometimes look back through some of, because I've kept a lot of the paperwork that we got and things like that. I was in a print things out world. It wasn't a digital world, so much back then. But I guess the premise for that was that everyone you can't turn everyone with the same brush and it was some people prepare for a game this way.

Magnus: 7:19

Some people prepare that way, way others prepare.

Dan: 7:21

Yeah, prepare that way. So if someone's like upbeat dancing, carrying on joking around and they perform like you've got to, like, let them do that. Or you've got someone that goes there and puts headphones on and is in the corner and is like, yeah, like doing that. Or you've got someone else that's just there cruising Some people falling asleep, like everyone's different, so it was kind of doing that and we shared those results with each other, so we knew what is the movie, though is that someone that's?

Dan: 7:43

upbeat bouncing around like yeah, just always constantly on and hovering around like I'm like, yeah, and that's how I, where the thinker might be someone that's playing the game out in their head and visualization and things like that and thinking about outcomes, and and then the feeler is like feet, like really. Yeah, I guess getting into to the different parts of it. So it's just understanding what you were.

Ryan: 8:04

Does it change with time? Just out of curiosity.

Don Sanka: 8:08

Well profiling is really synonymous, in business environments not so much. Psychometric, psychometric testing and all of that right. So does that help in the sporting environment? In the same way, did it help you to sort of understand your personality?

Ryan: 8:21

Yeah, definitely, well, I suppose with your teammates as well, like if you can understand, like sometimes you know he's he's doing his thing. Right now I'm going to just leave him alone, give him his space. You can still do your own thing but it's like that understanding of how everyone operates in the team, how they're thinking. So I suppose that would be.

Dan: 8:39

It is different, like, like for me. I had to do every single rep, every single thing, lift as heavy, as heavy as I could, train as hard as I could do extras on days off, everything to a T to make sure that I was right on the field for the 80 minutes where others they wouldn't be lifting heavy or whatever. And they get out on the field on that 80 minutes and absolutely kill it. And you're like, how the fuck do they do that? And you learn everyone's different and you you've got to yeah, not so focused on what everyone else is doing understand you how you tick what works for you and try and do everything you can to be the best you can be but understanding you, I just want to step back a few more.

Don Sanka: 9:15

The sort of get a view of the young and you said you had a lot of. The upbringing wasn't perfect. How did you become? How did you get into football? What drove you to that? Was that a distraction? Was that?

Dan: 9:30

you became a professional football player.

Don Sanka: 9:32

Yeah, I think what was the journey like?

Dan: 9:34

Well, my father, yeah, obviously pushed me and got me into footy pretty heavily as a young kid. I think I started when I was six and then, like as any young kid, you sort of you just fall in love with the game. I used to be a Newcastle Knights fan. Paul Harrigan the chief was my absolute hero. I used to get the flat-top haircut like him and it was just. I remember getting his signature when I was 11 years old at Wynn Stadium. So it was, yeah, you fall in love with the game.

Dan: 10:06

But for me, I guess, growing up in that environment domestic violence and stuff like that I didn't really have an identity, purpose or that sense of belonging. So for me it was sort of rugby league gave me that, where it channeled a lot of that stuff that I'd swept under the carpet and pretended like it wasn't there. It channeled it into something and I started to be around positive people, positive environments and I really I guess it resonated with me and it gave me structure. I call it. It put me on the straight and narrow, for example, and I was able to channel a lot of that anger, frustration, all that misunderstanding that I just didn't know anything about. I was able to channel it into something through training, through physical whatever you want to call it physical activity, physical combat, and it served me well and that's sort of how I got into footy and you sort of go through the junior reps Harold Matthews, sg Balls, 16s, 17s, 18s, jersey Flag and we had some really good players in our Jersey Flag side.

Dan: 10:57

We won the comp in 2005. What's a Jersey Flag side? So I don't know what the equivalent here is. In Queensland it was like under 20s. So we had I think it was 11 or 12 people out of our under 20s side going to play in the NRL Right.

Dan: 11:13

So, like Josh and Brett, Morris yeah, jason Nightingale, yeah, players like that. So yeah, we sort of all come through the ranks together and you're like shit, we can maybe make something of this. And then it was like, yeah, some got up to the top squad before others, a few of us, we got left behind and it took us a little bit longer, but yeah, that was. I'm pretty fond of those memories of like I used to go to school. Sorry, I'd work at Woolworths stacking the fruit and veg from 5 to 11, 5 to 10, and then school started at 11.55. And then I'd go to school, then you'd go, and then you'd go to training, and that was….

Magnus: 11:51

What sort of school did you go to that starts at 11? Yeah, it was Kevin Rush College in Wollongong. It was a Christian Brothers school.

Dan: 11:56

But yeah, we started at 11.55, was homeroom and you'd finished at 4.55.

Ryan: 12:01

That $4.55. That's wicked. Yeah, it was good and that's the smart sort of school.

Magnus: 12:04

Yeah, it was pretty good.

Don Sanka: 12:05

It probably pays to the strength, like a lot of kids, that's perfect why? Don't we do that more often. I don't know.

Magnus: 12:11

But what has mum and dad in today's society going to drop their kids at school at 11 o'clock? No sorry.

Dan: 12:18

I'll have to rephrase that 7 to 10 is is normal hours, 11 and 12, sorry, was 11.55 to 4.55.

Ryan: 12:26

So you can get your own way there.

Dan: 12:27

Oh, okay, you shouldn't be getting your own way there.

Ryan: 12:30

What do you think like? Let's remove, you know, nrl from the equation. How do you think you would have ended up without that, without that coping strategy, without that support network, without those teams, without that community besides you supporting you Obviously you said previously there was like a few issues or problems how do you think you would have coped without that?

Dan: 12:54

Really good question. I haven't really been asked that question ever. Yeah, I don't know. I could have gone down plenty of different routes, got myself into trouble, done probably not smart things and yeah, probably I think I'd probably be substance using pretty heavily and I'd be in a pretty dark spot and probably just trying to get through every day. If I'm being brutally honest.

Ryan: 13:20

I think it just goes to show the importance of community and you know you mentioned Wayne Bennett before and a bunch of these people around you actually noticing you, noticing your traits, and being able to accommodate accordingly and actually assist you as well in finding alternative routes and where to direct that energy as well.

Don Sanka: 13:42

It also shows the importance of investment in grassroots sports. It gives a lot of kids opportunity right Like, let's see Tobago was one of the ones at global level. He's come out and said if he won the 200 meters, beat Noah Lyles. And he said if his mom didn't put him into athletics, he'll probably be in jail. It's a very similar story for a lot of people.

Dan: 14:13

It shows the importance of grassroots sports, I think as well, like one thing for me it was obviously rugby league, but I didn't meet my wife. It was 2009, but that 2010, and we'll probably get into it. When I went through the depths of my struggle, having a partner that is there through thick and thin, I think that for me as well and a shout out to Nadine, but that, yeah, rugby league and her.

Ryan: 14:41

I'd be off the rails.

Magnus: 14:42

I couldn't agree more. I went through a pretty dark place as well, and my partner, aj, was instrumental in getting you through that, and the situation that I found myself in was self-inflicted, but it had an effect on us and our relationship and, in particular, our finances. And at that particular time I know for a fact that if she would have started hating on me which happens unfortunately in a lot of relationships it's like well, hey, you made your bed dickhead, like you sleep in it that probably would have been enough to tip me over the edge and it's something we may touch on later that I've become quite passionate about. On the difference, that support network, and I think that just so important, whether it be your intimate partner, like at the end of the day, they are such a huge influence in your life and to have that level of support coming from that number one person is it goes back to what you were saying about the mask and I appreciate you sharing that.

Dan: 15:38

But if you've got the mask on all day and then you get home into your safe haven and you've got to continue wearing the mask on all day, and then you get home into your safe haven and you've got to continue wearing the mask, I think it's you know, that unshakable faith in someone that you can come home and you can feel that, no matter what you say, no matter what comes out of your mouth, this person is still going to love you.

Ryan: 15:57

They're very aware of those flaws, or all those errors you've made.

Magnus: 16:00

It's very vocal there's no judgment. No Correct, that's no judgment.

Don Sanka: 16:03

No, correct. That's the difference. None of that matters if you don't have self-awareness right, like for you. When do you realize you said, before you touched on it, you said you had an undiagnosed mental illness. At what point did you realize that?

Dan: 16:18

and take some positive action towards it, or did someone else identify?

Dan: 16:23

Yeah, it's interesting because it's not like and that's why I did start the mental health movement initially was obviously sharing the power of story because it connects with people, it cuts through the bullshit it's been passed on through generations, religions, cultures like the story because we relate to it the hero's journey, all these different things. But it was also. I never knew the stuff that I'd learned through my journey of becoming mentally well, living with a mental illness, and I never learned any of that. I didn't get taught at school?

Don Sanka: 16:53

when did you identify it? When did you?

Dan: 16:55

yeah, and I'll tell you, and that was sort of why I was like people need to know this shit, like whether you're managing a mental illness or just yourself. So, and the other thing is like, without going into stats and stuff, but currently in australia 54 of people that go managing a mental illness or just yourself. And the other thing is, without going into stats and stuff, but currently in Australia 54% of people that go through a mental health struggle or experience mental illness or a mental health disorder they do not seek support, they suffer in silence.

Ryan: 17:15

So it was 54% approximately so half the people. Well, suicide is the leading cause of death of Australians under the age of 44.

Dan: 17:24

Yeah, 15 to 44. So in all the awareness and everything that we've done in society as a community, we've still got more than half the population suffering and so on. So why is that? There's barriers and there's so many different types of barriers. So part of what needs to happen is identifying, navigating and overcoming these barriers.

Dan: 17:42

But I think a lot of people think that and a lot of pressure gets put on the individual going through the struggle. But if you've ever been in the depths of a struggle, it's hard enough just to get up and have a shower, have something to eat and show up, let alone navigating the support system and being vulnerable and articulating how you're thinking and feeling. You don't even understand it yourself. How are you going to explain it to someone else? And then you add the stigma, the stereotype, the judgment, the lack of awareness and all those things to it. A lot of us, we isolate, we disconnect, we suffer in silence. But for me it's not something that happens overnight. I think it's. You don't just ask are you okay One time? Yep, I'm all good. Yep, sweet, jog on. That's awesome. It takes time. You may be ready to be a support, but that person may not be ready to seek support. And that was me. I didn't want support. I didn't even realise I was struggling. I had the blinkers on and I was just focused.

Magnus: 18:36

So this is still in your footy career.

Dan: 18:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, so it was 2010. Started playing, Sorry. 07 debuted, 2010,. Wayne had come in 09. We were the minor premiers. We got knocked out in straight sets. I played terrible in the game at Suncorp Stadium actually where we got knocked out by the Broncos and then had the biggest preseason ever.

Dan: 19:01

that year Started every game I think we'd won 11 straight Favoured to win the premiership, which we did that year. I think it was around 20. I turned into a Walmart drill, snapped my Achilles tendon and I was out for the next 12 months, missed the grand final, but for me it was the thing that had kept me on the straight and narrow, was taken away for a 12-month period. And it was all that stuff from my past and my upbringing that I'd swept under the carpet and pretended like it wasn't there. It'd come back and hit me like an absolute ton of bricks and I didn't know how to deal with it. I didn't know how to cope with it, I didn't know how to manage it. And I wasn't doing that because I thought that was a sign of weakness.

Dan: 19:47

So for me, I pushed first time and to take away the physical pain. I began to take away the emotional pain not following the doctor's orders, doctor shopping and eating painkillers to numb pain, to escape reality. And then it was illicit drugs, then it was alcohol. It was the combination of all isolation, anger, and then I got to the point where like yeah, I didn't want to be here anymore. But I think the way I was, people were like scared to check in on me because of how aggressive and angry and stuff that I was. So I was kind of putting myself in a bit of a hole, more of a hole.

Magnus: 20:21

I want to just find out during that time, and I want to just find out during that time and that was clearly a very low point for you, but you were still contracted as a professional footy player what level of support were you receiving from your teammates and from the club while you were going through that?

Dan: 20:34

Yeah, the Dragons were great. Scotty Stewart was our welfare and education officer. Wayne was great. Some of the senior players Did they just check in on you, yeah. Dean Young was fantastic, but the thing was, if you're not honest with the people around you about the depths of your struggle and what you're actually doing like I was still fronting up to training, you're in rehab.

Magnus: 20:55

So your mask was on.

Dan: 20:56

Yeah, but I was on crutches. It was in a bad, bad place, but no one really knew, because I wasn't. It's not like I'm coming in with a sign on saying I'm self-medicating to the point where I don't want to be here anymore. So no, the mask was on, so it wasn't until. I guess a combination of things happened that got me to the point where I knew like I had to make some change. The first part was my mum come over. I was, yeah, pretty bad place, self-medicating at my house, and she come over one day and just sat down with me. She was obviously worried, very worried, and she said to me something that really rattled me. I'll never forget how it made me feel. She said you're becoming your father and the person. I wanted to break the cycle and not be like I was starting to become, and I'd planted a seed but I still didn't go and seek support. It would have been, I reckon, a couple of weeks, maybe a month later.

Dan: 21:51

We had the Black Dog Institute come into training. They were a partner with the NRL at the time. They're a leader in the research, treatment and diagnosis of mental illness, in particular mood disorders and depression Grading Research. They're a fantastic organization. They come in and did sort of an awareness session around mental illness and I didn't really know anything about any of this. The gentleman that was there doing the session it was like he was talking directly to me. I remember I was sitting at the front, I had my hood on and it was like everything was just hitting home. I'm like holy fuck like, and it rattled me and I remember one of the boys come up to me and said, did that hit home for you? And I went, yeah, and then I went home. After that we got given a resource and you could go do. There was like an assessment tool link on it. So I went home and did it and it come back with red flags that you need to seek clinical professional support. I still didn't tell anyone about that.

Dan: 22:39

So it was likeessment tool or something. Yeah, I still didn't tell anyone else about it. And then it was a conversation I then had with Wayne that I guess, yeah, he checked in on me and I think the thing about it was we asked are you okay? And that was what he asked. He could see I was off, I wasn't my usual self, I wasn't happy-go-lucky bubsy, and he pulled me aside and he just checked in. He goes self wasn't happy, go lucky bubsy. He pulled me aside, he just checked in. He goes how you traveling? I said yeah, I'm all good. He said no, you're not.

Ryan: 23:09

and I just sort of went. Was it the tone of your voice, or like what? What do you think gave it away to him?

Dan: 23:13

no, well, he's. Obviously he's been watching me and he knew I wasn't, wasn't right or whatever it was. But he said no, you're not, um. And then he shared a few things about his personal life and it was sort of, for me, I broke down and started to share some stuff with him that I hadn't shared with anyone about my upbringing and things that were sort of rattling me, and there was no secret answer or anything like that. Honestly, it was a weight of the world lifted off my shoulders.

Dan: 23:41

It was the first time I'd actually articulated what was going on up here and Wayne didn't fix or solve anything. He just said we're going to get you the support that you need. And that was when I obviously spoke to my missus and I had to honestly tell her where I was at with the self-medication, the suicidal thoughts, the place that I was at. And then I did tell him about the assessment at the Black Dog Institute and that's where they said well, we're going to help you every step of the way to get you support you need. And that was when I booked in with the Black Dog Institute. I spent about six or seven hours up there when did you meet Nadine?

Dan: 24:15

April 2009. And this would have been maybe September, august, september 2010. And then, yeah, went through a whole range of different assessments, tests and stuff like that, with a clinical psych and a psychiatrist Family history. I found out my father was diagnosed manic depressive in the 80s or 90s. So we had a family history, my personality, the substance use, a whole range of different things and at the end of it I was given a formal diagnosis in 2010 with type 2 bipolar disorder.

Magnus: 24:49

Can you explain that to our listeners, what that means?

Dan: 24:52

Yeah, so there's obviously type 1 and type 2. Type 1, where individuals can have what they call manic episodes with depressive states, they can also sometimes experience psychosis. Type 2 is a little bit different, where they experience more what they call hypomania with depressive states, but they can be a little bit more frequent. But it is very different for every individual.

Ryan: 25:12

How did you feel in getting that diagnosis? Like having it almost, like explained to you what was going on, like to have someone go. Hey, this is why this is happening. How was that?

Dan: 25:23

Honestly, I smile when I say it and it's not to any disrespect of people that are living and struggling and suffering with it, because it is very, very challenging, but for me it was like a weight of the world lifted off my shoulders. It was like the books were going back on the shelf in chronological order. It was like why I thought, why I felt, why I behave. All these different things started to make a bit of sense. But for me it drew a line in the sand. It was like, okay, no different. Now I just ruptured my Achilles, I had to rehab it, I had to do these things. It was like, all right, what do I need to do? What do I needed?

Magnus: 26:00

to do.

Dan: 26:09

Well, yeah it was. I had to find a clinical support, first and foremost with a formal diagnosis, see a psychiatrist to get medication and get the medication right a mood stabiliser which I was on for an extended period of time, probably five or six years. So getting that medication right was probably a really key part. How was that?

Ryan: 26:29

process like Because, obviously, being in your position, coming from the NRL, you're probably quite fortunate to be able to have access and the supports that you need To be able to access those things. Now, if we take, like a regular Australian you know, to get a diagnosis, to get into a psychiatrist, you're waiting six.

Don Sanka: 26:46

Actually I want to ask you, Ryan.

Ryan: 26:47

Yeah.

Don Sanka: 26:48

You're in that space.

Ryan: 26:49

Yeah.

Don Sanka: 26:49

This is what you do, your business. Is that how easy or how hard is it to get a diagnosis?

Dan: 26:55

Access is one of those big barriers.

Ryan: 26:57

Huge barrier. You know, one in five Australians can't even afford like to get a proper diagnosis.

Don Sanka: 27:03

How big does?

Dan: 27:04

it cost to get a proper diagnosis.

Don Sanka: 27:05

Even with the.

Ryan: 27:05

Medicare rebate. How big is a piece of string depends on your Let me just jump in here.

Magnus: 27:09

In my case and I didn't take it any further than this but I went and saw my GP and basically got a prescription to get some pills. Do you know what I mean?

Don Sanka: 27:19

It was as simple as no further diagnosis. That's the whole point.

Magnus: 27:23

That's treating the symptom, Well, there's no further diagnosis. That's the whole point. That's treating the symptom and those. For me, that never, ever worked, and what I needed to do was I started taking those. Then I was still on the piss.

Don Sanka: 27:32

But the biggest thing for me from what Dan said is that diagnosis practically like that was a life-changing event.

Magnus: 27:39

That was an aha moment.

Dan: 27:43

Yeah, and I definitely hear what you're saying. Yeah, to see a psychiatrist the basics. People just think they're shrinks where there's levels of clinical support, from a GP to a mental health GP, to a counsellor, to a psychologist, to a clinical psychologist, to a psychiatrist, correct To a social worker, clinical social worker, clinical mental health nurse. There's so many different levels of support and depending on where that person's at like will depend on the type of clinical support they need.

Magnus: 28:13

Yeah, but Black Dog, for example. I know that they're also big in the trade world. You went and saw those guys Off the back of that. If anybody else that's out there, can anybody just go and see those. Or were you recommended they came into the NRL? They were?

Dan: 28:24

partnered with the NRL at the time and it was nearly 15 years ago and I don't think the awareness and stuff was out there, so there may not have been as many people reaching out, but a general population or public can go and get support through the Black Dog Institute. Yes, I'm not exactly sure we don't use them as a support network with Mental Health Movement, but I'm not sure what the wait time is. But they've got a mood disorder clinic and they've got a depression clinic and then they obviously do all their fundraising and their research stuff. But you can go and see them and be diagnosed and get treatment.

Magnus: 28:54

And so, from what Ryan's saying, if I wanted to go and see an actual psychologist or a psychiatrist, that's where the barrier is, so my GP.

Ryan: 29:02

You need a psychiatrist and that's cost, cost, access Cost and access.

Dan: 29:07

Sometimes it's nine months to see a psychiatrist in some areas.

Magnus: 29:10

Okay.

Dan: 29:10

How much water goes under the bridge in nine months?

Magnus: 29:12

Yeah, is that where the Band-Aid comes in on? Here's some antidepressant pills.

Don Sanka: 29:17

Well, antidepressants are so different from like antipsychotics you know, know you've got like your high-end anti-psychotics for your people that are, you know, quite dangerous to either the community or to themselves they can only be prescribed by a psychiatrist yeah, you're very, very high level psychiatrist that's going to diagnose you so to get that proper diagnosis, to say that you are you have in your case, yeah type 2 bipolar, and then be able to manage that and give you a clinical plan.

Dan: 29:46

Yeah, well, yeah, for my process it was finding obviously a good GP. Because, yeah, that was the session I remember I went and did through the EAP at the Dragons I forget it was David and I won't even say the organisation and I remember doing that session and there was sort of incense and a water fountain and all this and I'm thinking fuck what am I doing? Here and I remember doing this session with this gentleman.

Ryan: 30:11

He always has a water fountain tape. I don't know what it is.

Dan: 30:14

Calming and then I didn't connect with him and I remember going home and my missus and my mum were really my mum was living with us at the time they were really keen to hear how it went and I said no, no, I'm all good. I'm good now, I've got the diagnosis, I'm almost back at footy and I was almost going to attain every support with the same brush from one bad experience. And my mum said something I'll never forget. She said go and get a second opinion. Just because you had one bad experience with one clinical support, that doesn't mean they're all like that. So that was where I did go through my own GP. I found a clinical psych. I won't say her name, but I've been seeing her since 2010. To this day, to this day, obviously early doors. It was a couple of times a week, then it was weekly, but I still see once a month and I'll call it a check-up from the neck up.

Dan: 30:58

And that's a clinical psych you said Clinical psychologist, he said so Clinical psychologist.

Magnus: 31:01

Psychologist, not psychiatrist.

Dan: 31:03

I did have to see a psychiatrist. So I went to the GP, went to her, did, obviously a couple of sessions. She got the notes from the Black Dog Institute and then it was building rapport and understanding where I was at from like the bottom and building it up. And then it was, yep, okay, we need to see the psychiatrist. And then I went to South Coast Private, seen the psychiatrist, psychiatrist and I remember sitting there and I had to tell him he asked me all the substances that I was taking at the time and he, like nearly fell off his chair and I just I just remember that and and from there, um, yeah, I was prescribed a mood stabilizer and an antipsychotic, cerical, um and yeah, um, someuty stuff.

Dan: 31:42

But it did obviously help me stabilise my moods. It gave me a chance to learn and understand how to build mental fitness, what works, what doesn't work, triggers, build support networks, all these different get sleep and all these different type of stuff. To get back to being the best version of myself. But I had to get back to playing professional sport but yeah, then I was obviously able to. Over time went off through my psychiatrist, the antipsychotics, so you're able to.

Magnus: 32:11

So you're not currently on that medication, not.

Dan: 32:14

Cerebral, no, and no mood stabiliser. So I've been medication-free for shit I'd say five years. But I don't like it's not really something I talk publicly about, because I do a lot of stuff to make sure that I'm okay, uh. And if I'm not, I'm under no false illusion that if I have to go back on medication I have no issue with that. Um, but it's kind of like the the scales. I've got to put a lot of things and I'm sure I'll unpack of what helps me manage my mental illness. Um, where, if you just because and I always leave the medication for the clinical professionals to talk about but if you're taking medication, it's working, you're feeling good, you're thinking good and everything's going okay don't stop your medication.

Magnus: 32:56

Let's just talk about those preventative things, because in in my instance, I was drinking way too much, so my first thing I had to do and it was my wife that encouraged me to you got to get off the piss and then I just poured myself into physical activity or physical exercise and getting the endorphin rush from that, and also sleep, was a big thing. And then nutrition was the next thing, like some of the food that I was eating in the environment that I was in also wasn't healthy. So getting those basics right, but what worked for you?

Dan: 33:28

Yeah, they're all good points and I think, look, there's kind of two parts in which we're having this conversation. There's footy and then there's post-footy, because it's like it's not that it's heaps different, but I'm kind of a different person. Like I don't really identify with that person back then anymore, if that makes sense.

Magnus: 33:46

So you had that injury and then you were rehabilitating that when you went through this whole episode. When did you transition from full-time footy player?

Don Sanka: 33:55

post, and how did you work out what that transition was?

Dan: 33:58

Yeah, it wasn't by choice, so I've had 12 surgeries now but I had a creating knee injury in 2015 in the auckland, so you recovered from the achilles and went back to play yep, yep, prepared for another five years um, yeah, so 2010 was the achilles and I retired in 2015.

Dan: 34:16

So, yeah, another five years, a lot of surgeries, my body like, yeah, a lot of injuries. Um, I was lucky to get the time out that I did. I'm very grateful for that. But yeah, 2015 was the career-ending knee injury and it was I studied. So that was another thing I studied throughout once I got that diagnosis, I remember Wayne.

Magnus: 34:35

Wayne's a big fan of that, yeah and I had a convo with him.

Dan: 34:37

He said look, you love talking, he goes, you've got a good story. He said said, but you got to go and get educated and it'll help your footy, and when wayne says something, you go and do it. So that's what I did. I went and studied um and got the qualifications to put with the lived experience. What did you study um? A whole heap of different things at tafe um diplomas in mental health, counseling, counseling, um what was it? Uh, community services, drug and alcohol, um, so aod, um, and then social work. Yeah, I think it was about eight years worth of study.

Don Sanka: 35:08

I probably would have taken someone else three or four years to do it but us front rowers aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.

Dan: 35:13

I can write yeah, but that education and those qualifications that I got probably other than going to seek support and get a diagnosis, having my kids meet my wife it's probably one of the best things that I ever did was get educated and qualified, because my career was cut short with creating knee injury. I still had two and a bit years to run on my contract and I was going to go overseas and play, so I was retired at 28 and for me it was like shit. That thing that had kept me on the straight and narrow was taken away in 2010. It was now taken away for good, not just 12 months to rehab an injury, it was finished medically retired.

Dan: 35:45

So for me it was like what am I going to do? And it was something that I remember I wrote in the notes in my phone. It was either in 2014 or 15. I want to help as many people as I can in the mental health space. That was what I wrote and I didn't know what it meant, what I was going to do or anything like that. And that was where the mental health movement come from.

Dan: 36:04

I wanted to use movement and exercise and creating change and not being still, but also creating a movement of change. And that was where the name come from. And I didn't know what I was doing. But I finished footy and then I did work back in footy because I had to, because I still had two years on my contract, so but I was building sort of MHM in the background and I just said yes to everything, whether it was a school, a community, whether it was going out to the middle of whoop-whoop or sharing my story. I was just sharing my story and it connected with people. I had no idea what I was doing and, yeah, that was when I knew that there was something in this.

Ryan: 36:41

Well, I don't think we can build a resilient nation if we treat mental health or mental illness like a personal flaw. Um, it has to be treated as a public issue and it is, and I think that's that's the only way that we're actually going to achieve anything together. And I think you know, once you realize that, as obviously you you had that aha moment like this is actually one of the the biggest but how do you remove the stigma around it to create a public?

Don Sanka: 37:12

yeah, you know how many. I think last time we spoke you've trained something like 7 000 people face to face, and that was a long time ago 500 yeah that was a very some different companies we work with just over half a million australian workers from mining construction waste

Ryan: 37:26

management 500 000 just to jump in as well. How much um money do you reckon you've saved those businesses by working with those individuals? Because what are the statistics? 70 billion dollars a year is probably wasted by um up to40 billion a year is around absenteeism and presenteeism, around mental ill health.

Dan: 37:50

It is yeah.

Magnus: 37:51

Those industries that you mentioned? Is mental illness more prevalent in some industries than others?

Dan: 37:57

There's more high-risk industries. So where things have changed from obviously being within the workplace back in from 2016 to where we are now in 2025, there's work health and safety legislation that come through around psychosocial hazards. So companies now don't have to just manage physical hazards within the workplace. They have to identify, risk, assess and manage and support psychosocial hazards. Things like job demand, work environment, bullying and harassment, discrimination, job control, reward and recognition all these things within the workplace. And if they don't, there's potential with the high-end jail time, millions of dollars of fines and something that's called industrial manslaughter Yep. So this is real within the workplace and I think the thing around where it has changed is it was always just oh, you've got an employee assistance program. We do an R? U OK Day breakfast. We've got an employee assistance program. We do an R? U OK Day breakfast. We've got a mental health strategy. We're done. What does that do? Because the EAPs 49% of the workplace actually use the EAP. So what's the other?

Don Sanka: 38:56

you know what I mean 91% of people doing it and even when you go to them, there's no actionable outcomes that are given to you or real solutions. No actionable outcomes that are given to you, or real solutions.

Dan: 39:03

So it's not and it's come so far and I think even for us we've had to evolve Like we were just sort of we did the research, we've partnered with the University of Wollongong and we've got like we've validated all our courses and our workshops and stuff like that. But that was in our secondary interventions, which is our mental health workplace blueprint, when I sort of with you and Go One and stuff mental health workplace blueprint.

Don Sanka: 39:26

When I sort of with you and go one and stuff before that, I want to, like you were just turning up and telling your story yeah, now you've trained 500,000 people. How did you? How did you put it together? How did you build it? How did you come up with the mental health continuum and the blueprint? Um, how did you get there?

Dan: 39:41

well, I think one of the best bits of advice I've been given is you don't have to be the smartest person in the room, but if you get the smartest people around you, that's where the magic happens. That's what I did.

Dan: 39:51

I got a lot smarter people than me around me and I wanted to learn. I connected with subject matter experts, I wanted to learn, I got them involved and everything like that. And we wanted to come from the proactive side of things Reactive there was still reactive and stuff there because I did a lot of work placement in drug and alcohol rehabilitation centres, mental health hospitals, homeless shelters, where there is the Christ intervention, and the reactive side, which 100% we need.

Don Sanka: 40:19

What was happening in the proactive space, where not just treating symptoms but getting to the root cause, and that was where we entered how did you go from someone, individual person, just turning up and telling stories, to building a company and a team around it and then and this, this methodology, that's been validated now by yeah, the university?

Dan: 40:41

yeah it's. It's sort of hard because you know, I don't really articulate how we did it, but it was from starting those stories, sharing as much as we could. Then it was gathering data and information within the and we chose the workplace. So we were doing everywhere and everything whether it was sporting clubs, communities, kids, adult. You can't be everything for everyone. The mental health space is so big you can't be everything for everyone. So we figured where would you be able to hit the most?

Magnus: 41:03

amount of people when you say where did you get some business partners on board?

Dan: 41:06

early on? No, not, it was just my wife and I that started it, so we got no investors or anything like that, and that was probably a thing when I started Mentor Off Put, what did it play? People said start a charity, start a not-for-profit.

Ryan: 41:20

And.

Dan: 41:20

I was like spend most of your time. I wanted mental health to be treated the same way as physical health, so I wanted to start a company, because if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

Magnus: 41:33

So I started a company. You're a mental PT.

Dan: 41:36

Yeah, and I stuck by that and I got ridiculed and bagged for it and everything like that. And even starting a mental health company, people said no one's going to want to listen to you, no one's going to want to do anything, can't imagine what that feels like imagine what that feels like, yeah, and and stuff like that.

Dan: 41:51

And I got, I got put down and stuff like that, and I I knew something was special here, so I was sharing the story. But then it was partnering with subject matter experts and building out what we wanted to do. So it started off as, as you've got to check in with yourself and create self-awareness, so we needed visual tools that people could resonate with. Clinical people 100 we need and we've got they awesome, but we've got to be able to connect with people. So the power of story cuts through, connects.

Dan: 42:12

And then it's around education, tangible tools to check in with yourself, check in with the people around you. And then it's understanding your role and responsibility as a support network. What are the skills that I need to do? Communication skills, active listening, all those different things. Then what are the support networks? But then for the individual, what is it? I'm not travelling so well or what do I do to better manage my own mental health or my mental illness? Coping strategies, mindset, support networks, giving them these tools in their resilient kit bag.

Dan: 42:39

And then it was obviously, yeah, building out that blueprint. So it was awareness, education, training and resources. That was what the original mental health workplace blueprint was and we did that for a number of years but to a degree we have had it validated and it does make impacts around behavior change and thought everything like that, but a lot of it was still treating symptoms. You have to get to the root causes and that was where the primary intervention come in around psychosocial risk management. So identifying what these hazards are within the workplace, assessing the risk of these hazards to the individual and to the business, looking at what you're currently doing and then building out a plan to be able to better control and manage those psychosocial hazards.

Magnus: 43:23

Just quickly on the workers and that plan. I ran a company that had 40 staff and most of the problems not all of the problems, but most of the problems that we had whether it be in the office, it was a construction company that we had out on site were people's personal problems, that they were brought into the work environment and that even came down to tough tradies. And they're carrying on like pork chops. There's nothing wrong with what we were providing on site. They just had a blue with their missus in the day before. And so how are you dealing with that? Because you're dealing with the workplace, we're trying to put things in place to reduce stress, but have you found that that is as real in the industries that you're referring to, that people's personal problems are the real issues that are at the workplace?

Dan: 44:10

It's a combination, because we bring our whole selves to work. I remember when I was um, working at worse, and I had a lot of shit going on. I was only 16 or 17 at home and I remember my boss said to me because I would come in in not so good states or moods and he'd say don't bring your problems into work. And I'm thinking well, I'm here nearly 48 a week. Where else?

Magnus: 44:26

and so that was for me. But I wanted to put a sign up out on the job site when I was a site manager, just going like leave all your problems out here and then come in and we'll so where it's come to with what legislation says is like yes, 100%.

Dan: 44:41

There is stuff happening and the biggest contributing factors in all the data that we do around what's affecting Australian workers in industries that we work with is stress, which is obviously a by-product, but also a contributor is financial pressures or finances. It's relationships and kids and it's work itself. They're usually the top four in the data that we collect that people are struggling with and potentially bring into work or experiencing.

Ryan: 45:05

What do we do for, like you know, areas and businesses like like my area, like health, health networks, like the ndis you've got support workers coming in. There's carers burnout. You're looking after mentally ill people. You know you're helping a lot, of, a lot of people that are quite vulnerable and there's a lot consistently kind of being pushed at you and you know I've had to manage it quite a bit. Workers kind kind of sharing. You know they spend a lot of time with these people, they build connections and there's a, you know, level of familiarity that comes into play there. So, like you know, how do I?

Dan: 45:44

manage those risks? How?

Ryan: 45:45

do? I do that from a business perspective.

Dan: 45:49

And for the NFP and charity sector. They're supporting some of the most vulnerable in our communities and they're one of those high risk sectors or industries. We've actually just written a white paper around it, but it is looking at an effective psychosocial risk management program. Because there is those hazards that are specific to your industry, like what you're saying, and it's around identifying what they are, assessing the risk of them and doing that risk assessment. But looking at what you currently got in place whether that's your job design, whether that's debriefing, whether that's support networks, whether that's leadership training, whether it's conflict resolution, all these different controls that might be related to those hazards and then you implement those over time. You have a feedback loop Is it working, is it not working, and then you do another risk assess. So it's kind of an evolution or an evolving element. But I think a lot of workplaces they hear the word psychosocial hazard and risk assessment and stuff.

Ryan: 46:44

It's a lot of paperwork, man.

Dan: 46:45

Yeah, I don't want to be doing that that's like, but, yes, they it is a daunting word if you don't know what it is, but we've done one. Uh, we've done it across a lot of industries, but we did one with our own, with mental health movement, because you've got to be practicing what you preach. And then we do a lot of traveling and we are dealing with, um, people's stories and supporting people, critical incidents. So we did that and it was. It was really um, refreshing as a, as a, as a company owner, as a ceo, to to see some of like.

Dan: 47:14

I thought we, okay, we're doing this and we got this in place, but that was gaps. But until we did that, that, the, the survey, and identified what those hazards were, um, and then did the risk assessment with the team from all levels of the business, not just the leaders doing it, you need everyone there, uh, across the snapshot of the business. And then just the leaders doing it, you need everyone there across the snapshot of the business. And then we're able to hear. And then we found the gaps.

Magnus: 47:34

We found you literally do a SWOT analysis in the mental health space, yeah, the psychology, yeah, of your organisation.

Dan: 47:42

I think the people think that, well then, you can't do shift work, you can't do this, you can't do that because it's going to affect everyone, but it's not. It's just to be able to identify what they are and then what controls can you put in place or supports to reduce the risk and better manage it.

Magnus: 47:56

So what you touched on earlier just in relation to you mentioned the world mental fitness, and I'm all about again that proactivity side of things, which is why how I'm trying to manage my life at the moment I'd be intrigued to see with yours, but getting that amount of sleep, getting around your mates, having a level of community and connectivity, getting outside, getting a bit of sunlight, making sure that you're getting that sleep, then you're trying to just minimise those things. Having a good nutrition and, obviously, rugby league players they come from an area that it's very much about that toughness. And then mental toughness how do you look at it now? Is it building mental toughness, mental resilience, mental fitness, and how are you going about building that in your own personal life?

Dan: 48:39

Yeah, it's definitely like the mental health and the physical health are definitely connected. And when you're putting all those things in place you're giving yourself the best chance mentally to think and feel good. And when you're putting all those things in place you're giving yourself the best chance mentally to think and feel good. And when you're playing you're kind of, I think, with the pressures on the field but also the pressures and challenges off the field, you're in your physical peak. So sometimes those mental challenges don't necessarily impact you as much because you're kind of humming and the stuff from home was there. I knew it was there, but everything else I was sort of humming away with that. But then as soon as I was injured painkillers, not training, not sleeping I declined very, very quickly and then I added the substance use to it. For myself there's a bit of a mantra I live by when I do good I feel sorry, when I do bad I feel bad. When I do good I feel good. And for me I'm I've got self-destructive behaviors.

Magnus: 49:30

Well, that's actually something that phil jauncey mentioned. So that's the way, part of the your behaviors. I don't know if you remember that his thing.

Dan: 49:38

I do remember if it's similar to what you're talking about and he, I remember in his eccentric way he'd say you can't control your thoughts, you can't control feelings I've got three degrees and and I can't control that he goes but you can control your actions If you want to think or feel differently you need to go and do something different, Even back to your stance, like he mentioned, like if you just take a positive stance, whereas when you're depressed you're standing there, your head's down, your shoulders drop, so it's yeah.

Ryan: 50:13

I think the hardest part with you know people that are depressed is that first step is so monumentally difficult. And you talk about, you know athletes and, yes, they're at their physical peak. Or you know people that may not be in that shape, that may be, you know, really really hard on themselves. You know, I've seen it personally with a lot of clients. I see it personally, you with my, with my own family, and it's like it's just that loop of I'm already down here, over here is so far far, far away.

Dan: 50:39

I think as well with it, where the basic, fundamental education is. We need to understand the difference between mental health and mental illness. People think it's the same thing. It's not. It's it's on a continuum. It's not the same thing.

Dan: 50:52

If you have a brain in your head, you have a mental health. It's as simple as that and it's how you think, act and feel on a day-to-day basis. It's how you interact with the world. It's how you cope with change, challenge and adversity, how you maintain meaningful relationships. Everyone has a mental health and the better we look after and manage our mental health, the better version of ourselves will be, the better we'll be able to cope, et cetera, et cetera.

Dan: 51:11

Mental illness is a little bit different. It isn't on a continuum. But a mental illness is an impairment in the way you think, act and feel on a day-to-day basis. But we all have impairments day-to-day, week-to-week. It doesn't necessarily mean it's a mental illness. It's when that you're doing to the point where you're not thinking, acting, feeling the way you normally were. But a mental illness has to be diagnosed by either a mental health GP, a psychologist, a clinical psychologist or a psychiatrist. You can't self-diagnose. It'll be diagnosed on a phone or by a father and things like that. And I think that's where there's a bit of conjecture or a bit of misunderstanding, where you maybe have gone through struggles at work, stressed, some relationship struggles. Do you have clinical depression or is it more of an environmental challenge and things that are going on where someone that may be diagnosed with type 2 bipolar disorder or schizophrenia.

Dan: 52:02

That is a different kettle of fish and it needs to be treated and supported and things to what it needs.

Don Sanka: 52:09

How do we fix this problem? Right, Like it's a systemic issue and it's been around for a long time.

Dan: 52:15

Lots of people have come up.

Don Sanka: 52:17

Yeah, we're working on it. He's trained 500,000 people. If he can't answer that question, we're in trouble. The reason why I ask is we've got all of these support networks, from Lifeline to Beyond Blue, to the Black Dog Institute. However, it's getting worse. We can't blame everything on social media. We can't blame everything on the new generation of….

Dan: 52:42

No.

Ryan: 52:44

It's nine people die a day.

Dan: 52:46

It's like their own life. Yeah, and seven are men. 76% of all suicides are men and domestic violence is becoming worse.

Magnus: 52:51

It's not getting any better.

Don Sanka: 52:52

We're not finding solutions.

Magnus: 52:54

Just on that statistic, if I can jump in. So I've got a friend of mine. He has lost four mates to suicide. Each of those four blokes were all married with kids, which comes back to that point I said earlier, just in relation to that support, and I think that that's something that there's so much awareness out there, but I don't know if there's enough awareness to place around that the importance that the role of a partner has and the role of a immediate network. Like you pointed out, you got asked by a number of people are you okay? And your natural reaction was yeah, I'm fine, and most people go, yeah, well, I've asked him, I've checked in, he's fine. Wayne sat there and he said, mate, like I know, you're not okay and what is it?

Don Sanka: 53:38

This is why I'm asking there's enough awareness? Every one of us knows someone who's either taken their life or, you know, has suffered with mental illness, with suicide. How many of us have been in depression in this room? Yeah, I have Definitely. We're debilitating where I couldn't get out of bed at some point in my life, right, and still we're struggling with this. It's getting worse. It's not getting any better.

Ryan: 54:00

Well, social media.

Dan: 54:01

Systems are not there.

Don Sanka: 54:02

We talked about I think, when we first started talking. I'm proud to have played a small part in your whole journey and what you guys were building was better than anything else we were looking at. I had the support of some amazing people Dr Voot, one of the founders of Go1. We practically wrote a blank check how do we fix, how do we help you bring your blueprint to life? Because we knew that you know which people are still consuming.

Don Sanka: 54:30

Yeah and you couldn't scale it one-to-one in person, so we needed to find a way to help you to scale, but we found your methodology to be better than a lot of the ones that were out there. Still, there's simple things we talked about how do we create that passport of continuum, like how do we, you know?

Dan: 54:52

yeah, I think that it's a two-way street, so it's all it's. It's the individual that needs to have that self-awareness, understand how they're traveling, checking in with themselves where they're at, what's affecting them. How have they changed? What are you currently putting in place? Do you need to make some changes? Do you need support? But then there's also the other side of things, of people being the support network that managing themselves really well, but don't necessarily. They've never been taught the skills or the training or the education on how to start a conversation, how to build rapport, how to use active listening and summarising and paraphrasing and to use consistency and to follow back up and to be empathetic. They haven't been shown those skills, so they sometimes don't engage in those conversations because they're like shit, am I going to say something?

Ryan: 55:34

wrong. Am I going to make a mistake If I can jump in here as well? I think it comes down to like technology is the only way to solve it. That's where we've got all of this technology.

Don Sanka: 55:45

It has to be, you know at some point the problems start early. It has to be, you know. At some point the problems start early. You said you had a bad upbringing and domestic violence issues. If the opportunity was there, you would have reached out and spoken to someone I have dealt personally with it in my life my daughter as well like she was going through it. You would reach out and call Lifeline and you would call Beyond Blue. You would call as many services as you can, but there's no connectivity between any of these services. We have technology, we have so many improvements in technology, but the numbers are astounding but we're not finding a solution to this, I think, ryan's company.

Ryan: 56:25

you're being quite proactive if you want to tell our listeners a little bit about what you're me is my biggest fear, and you know, looking at the ndis and how many people are at risk and and how many people, every single day, are going through these battles, and we just lack a fundamental understanding of how each individual reacts. The one thing that I've learned is you can throw 400, 500 pieces of education, information, but it's that one thing that resonates with you, that that one penny drop you talk about before and after nrl where, where does that penny drop occur for each person? How do we define that? How do we find that? Now, you know, with, with ai, we have processing skills and capabilities that we've never even dreamed of having, not even close. So with what we do at UR, supported with the AI and the human sentiment, I talk about the Tony of voice I talk about earlier with Wayne Bennett. He just knew.

Dan: 57:39

And that was one of the things for you His experience and all the interactions over the 20, 30, 40 years of coaching.

Don Sanka: 57:44

So you're saying if you can capture that and train a large language model to do the same thing.

Dan: 57:48

Absolutely.

Ryan: 57:54

But you can get him proactively, rather than exactly exactly, picked up earlier. And and that that's that's what we're aiming to do at us pod. We're aiming to be that proactive approach. When you know you talk about, imagine having 400 conversations, 500 conversations, you know, with another person, a real person, but then you have that AI reading your sentiment, helping me understand, helping Don understand, helping the educators such as yourself. You know the mental health movement and giving these statistics, giving this information to the relevant parties. I think that's where we have the game change, because that's when we have every person as an individual, that passport, that continuity of care. That's where we have the understanding. So for me, when it comes down to how do we solve this problem, I think we already have the tools available. Now it's just about connecting the tools in the right places.

Don Sanka: 58:40

Can I ask, dan, when you had that penny drop moment with the Black Drug Institute, when they came and presented it, from that moment to getting the support, how long did that take?

Dan: 58:53

it would have been yeah, probably a six month period. Yeah, well, that's what I mean. It doesn't happen overnight? Yeah, that's a long period, yeah, but a lot of suffering. But even like you, yeah, how do you suffering? Science the whole life? Yeah, again.

Don Sanka: 59:06

I've been fortunate enough to go to one of your training sessions and I've spoke to a few people. After you've done it, you could see the penny drop like when you're talking. You could see the penny drop like in people's faces and I think, yeah, it's, it's as well.

Dan: 59:21

It's not a there's no finish line to it. I think that's. What we need to understand is that we all have a mental health and the things that happen on a day-to-day basis are going to impact our mental health. And if we don't look after our mental health, we can decline down that continuum and some people can experience mental illness. And mental illness does not discriminate. It can affect anyone at any time. It doesn't matter how many teaspoons of concrete you've had and hardened up. It can affect anyone at any time and currently what the stats say is one in five will experience a mental illness in any 12-month period and, yeah, almost half the Australian population in a lifetime. So it's having that understanding around that.

Dan: 59:57

But we do need to take some accountability of our own mental health and putting things in place that are going to help us better manage ourselves, in particular, when we're going through challenging times. But if we manage ourselves really well, we've got good levels of mental fitness. Well, we've got good levels of mental fitness. We need to be of service to our community, to our family, friends, loved ones, and be the support network, not the judgment and the oh you should be right, or things like that. I think that's where it's got to be.

Don Sanka: 1:00:23

In your opinion, how do we fix it? I know I'm coming back to it again. We just had a bit of commentary. Fix it, I know.

Dan: 1:00:30

Yeah, I'm coming back to you all, I can talk on behalf of is what we do in the workplace in this model where there's three interventions. So there's the proactive uh sorry, the the primary intervention, the secondary and the tertiary, where it's not just one thing, it's everything and it's along that continuum. So it's in in layman's terms it's identifying in the workplace what the problems are, assessing them and then looking at what you're currently doing, look at the plan of what we need to do to better manage those psychosocial hazards in the workplace. We put that in that program and that could be two, four, five years. It's ongoing. But then you've got the secondary interventions, where it is around educating the workforce and creating that self-awareness and giving them the skills and the mental fitness and the resilience and the support networks and stuff like that.

Dan: 1:01:17

But that takes time and an R? U OK Day or a training day, talk once a year, that's not enough. It's got to be consistency and a client that we've done like we do talks nearly every quarter with their whole workforce and it client that we've done like we do talks nearly every quarter with their whole workforce and it builds that trust, it builds that connection and it's like then people sort of get their hands on the steering wheel and, and they can diy it I call it, they the bunnings it and they're managing themselves and they're doing really well. But if they get to the point where they're not, then they've got the tertiary, which is then the support.

Magnus: 1:01:47

So just, elaborate a little bit me, so just you personally. What are some of the things that we should all be doing to be better equipped to be dealing with this stuff?

Dan: 1:01:58

So, taking that, personally or as being a support network, personal, so what?

Magnus: 1:02:02

do you do personally to maintain as higher of a mental fitness as you possibly can, like you pointed out, I agree. I think that the stronger you are and the fitter you are, the more that you can endure. So if you're in that position, like as an athlete we've seen it happen before if they get sick, they can be in a better position to get well because their level of fitness before they got sick compared to somebody that's not in that position. So what are those things that you do on a day-to-day basis that gives you some good fitness mentally?

Dan: 1:02:33

Yeah, look, as you said before, sleep is probably my number one coping strategy when my sleep goes. I know I've got some stuff going on. How many hours sleep? Oh look, I need to be getting between seven and nine nine hours when I do shift work with the mines and we're doing night shift and stuff like that, and I'm getting three, four hours sleep. I do that two nights in a row, three nights. I'm rattled.

Don Sanka: 1:02:52

How many nights is that? If you have three hours, then what's your process?

Dan: 1:02:54

When I'm doing that so often, it's not as consistent, but your self-awareness. Now you've realised that I'm exactly the same, like I've become, that sleep is a massive, massive thing to me and I prioritise it massively and I obviously measure it with the garment and everything like that Me too.

Ryan: 1:03:10

Sleep is my. That's an old man thing. I'm like if I get four hours You're still 20-something.

Magnus: 1:03:17

You think you're indestructible.

Ryan: 1:03:19

Where did you get those?

Don Sanka: 1:03:20

milestones of 30, 40? Start now.

Dan: 1:03:23

So I think, yeah, sleep is the biggest one, but it's self-awareness, so I don't wake up in the morning and go. I've got type 2 bipolar disorder. How am I getting through the day? I wake up and go. What do I need to do to be the best version of myself? And a lot of the times I've done dumb shit and made bad decisions where it hasn't made me be the best version of myself.

Magnus: 1:03:39

And I've suffered from it Is gratitude something that you have to focus on.

Dan: 1:03:44

It is and it, but if you can get it done, sort of 80-20 or four out of the seven days, for me it's yeah, waking up in the morning, Ice baths is something that I've really integrated in the last couple of years. Yeah, Is ice baths so doing?

Magnus: 1:04:02

yeah, look two to three minutes at about two degrees, morning or afternoon Morning, yep Morning.

Don Sanka: 1:04:05

Has to be morning yeah, so morning yeah. And then Dan's the first one to introduce me to this thing. I have ice showers, not baths. I'm not that crazy.

Dan: 1:04:13

Well, the weather doesn't get that cold in Brisbane.

Don Sanka: 1:04:15

It's gone.

Dan: 1:04:15

I was going to say in the middle of summer it's still cold Ice baths is a big one.

Dan: 1:04:25

For me. I write in the notes in my phone. I've got my intentions for the day. So I have three intentions, um, whether it's yeah, to be to do what I need to do, to be a good dad, whatever it is. So I set three intentions and I write three things down that I'm grateful for, um, and there. That's just a bit of that that reset. Um, I sort of train more in the afternoons, um, so, yeah, I'm trying to get a session in, either, whether it's cardio, weights, boxing, uh, or going for a walk. I try and and do that, yeah, four days a week. Exercise is a big one. Look, I love me food and my tucker. I try to stick by the 80-20, but sometimes it might be 60-40. But trying to eat as well as I can, drinking plenty of water, sleep.

Magnus: 1:05:04

Just touch on that water bit, because that's another big one that I've found. From a hydration perspective. The first thing I do when I get up in the morning is a glass of water, yeah, before coffee, before anything. Yeah, 100% hydration is a big one.

Dan: 1:05:19

The other one is around connection. So for me it's my wife, where she's someone that I can be open and vulnerable with. But I'll ask her, I'll literally say, how have I been traveling the last couple of weeks? And she'll tell me, bluntly, she's like you've been doing really well, or she's like you've been a fucking nightmare and I'm like, all right, well, what do I do? And it's a bit of a reset. So having that where it's not just in here, it's having that someone that I can trust, that one, um.

Dan: 1:05:54

The other one is seeing my clinical psych. That that once a month, that that check up from the neck up, um, is is a big one, even when things are going good, because it's still just good to get it out. No one knows, no one like, doesn't get thrown back in your face and you can just talk about whatever you want, um. So that's a a big one, um. And then, yeah, look my kids, that that's a big one for me. Now I've got three kids, but, um, I've got a 13 month old girl, um, little girl, nevy, um. And yeah, my kids, uh, boston and tyler as well. They're probably what helps me try and be that better version of myself, um. But the other one for me is I battle still to this day around.

Dan: 1:06:24

I call it head noise, but overthinking um and I still I still battle with that for me, like, and that can be real destructive for me. I'm under no false illusion. I can fall off the perch of the wagon real quick and get into some really bad places and self-destruct like that and I battle that every single day. But I try, and one of the mantras is don't believe everything you think they're just thoughts, but being able to talk to someone else really does help?

Magnus: 1:06:49

does that have a big impact like that has an impact for me on sleep like I'm, I'm in bed for that period of time, but whether I'm getting that quality sleep or not is literally impacted on that when you wake up and you're just bang, it starts.

Magnus: 1:07:01

Yep, I don't drink. Um, that's a big thing as well, because when I was drinking, that was great. I'd get to sleep and then wake up at 3 o'clock in the morning with the booze blues and not being able to, and that's when the thoughts were just out of control.

Ryan: 1:07:13

It's doom scrolling for me when I see people's highlights reels and I'm just going, oh. So that comparison, yeah, yeah, and you just look at it and you just go highlight and you're like shh.

Dan: 1:07:21

See alcohol and obviously substances is a big one. Social media.

Don Sanka: 1:07:26

There's so many barriers, right like that you talk about social media alcohol.

Magnus: 1:07:31

I think what's really good, though, what you're touching on is those are those fundamentals that every single one of us, most of us have control over those, and I think that, coming back to your point, taking that ownership of it, not everybody's able to do it. There are people that have got clinical issues.

Ryan: 1:07:47

I like how you point it to me then. Not everyone's able to do it Well. It's more so referring to you've spoken about your brother. Yeah, yeah, also him. He's talking about doomsday.

Don Sanka: 1:08:02

He doesn't sleep, sleeping three hours a day.

Magnus: 1:08:05

He can help. He can sleep three hours a day because he's still 20.

Ryan: 1:08:08

Yeah, just, sheer will Sorry. He can help. He can sleep three hours a day because he's still 20.

Don Sanka: 1:08:11

Yeah, just share a wheel. Yep, sorry, go on. I'm just going to go back to the question again. Right, let me rephrase that.

Dan: 1:08:15

How do we?

Don Sanka: 1:08:16

solve the problem.

Dan: 1:08:17

No, no, no.

Don Sanka: 1:08:17

No, no, no. I'm going to rephrase it, because if you had access to any technology on the planet right, any solution that you could put on the table, any solution that you could put on the table it could be as science fiction as it can. How do you fix the problem For me? I heard I'm not sure if you guys have heard of Dr Danny Lallman some amazing points of view on mental health. Some of them are very fringy, but he talks about getting a brain scan done, because you wouldn't treat a broken arm without getting a proper diagnosis.

Don Sanka: 1:08:54

And when we were able to get that proper diagnosis in getting that scan done. It changed the way how we treated those injuries.

Dan: 1:09:03

Mental illness is still treated by observation yeah, in a lot of, in a lot of areas for me that's

Don Sanka: 1:09:11

what I'm saying I'm just using that as an example, but it's like a there's a solution or things that are needed for mental illness.

Dan: 1:09:19

But then there's the what's the solution and things that are needed for just mental health and mental fitness. It's yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Don Sanka: 1:09:25

It can't be everything, but they're they're the two sides of the same coin, right? So if you can manage mental health, mental illness becomes preventative. So if you had everything like you have to manage mental health to be able to prevent mental illness.

Dan: 1:09:40

But it's also like and I don't know because I'm not an expert in this, but you look at people and I grew up in low socioeconomic but you look at Maslow's hierarchy, they're not worried about self-actualisation and self-awareness and checking in they. You look at Maslow's hierarchy they're not worried about self-actualisation and self-awareness and checking in, they're just worried about getting their next meal. So to worry about mental health and mental, they don't give a shit about that, they're just worried about getting their next meal. Where are they sleeping at night and staying out of trouble and staying alive? So that's you know what I mean Perspective.

Dan: 1:10:04

And it's like Jordan Peterson, dr Jordan Peterson, raising the, the baseline level of income, and that's going to put people up the maslow's hierarchy. Why are people going to pick up rubbish on there? That's that when they're just worrying about their next meal. Do you know what I mean? So it's really hard. Where you look at, there's different demographics, there's different levels of financial like status, there's different levels of education, where you can't put everyone in the same thing and expect them to check in on themselves on the continuum, understand, um, coping strategies, support networks, access to that it's. It's a yeah, it's a very, very, very, very hard question to to answer, um if you had to pick one, I.

Don Sanka: 1:10:42

I want to know the reason I ask is like you call yourself not an expert, but you probably have spoken to more people than the average people trying to find a solution in this.

Dan: 1:10:51

So look, look, I can give you two things. I've sort of said it already what does a mentally healthy or a psychologically safe workplace look like? And that's exactly what it is Identifying what those psychosocial hazards are, risk assessing them, looking at what you're currently doing and building out a plan of proposed controls that's going to better manage them. It's, then, educating providing awareness, education, training and resources to your employees, in particular, your leaders, giving them the skills and the knowledge of how to better support mental health within the workplace, but you've actually, and you've got to do that consistently. Then it's having the right support networks available if and when people need it, whether it's reactive or proactive. You also need to have the capabilities or the organisational infrastructures to support critical incidents crisis, within the workplace as well. And that's what?

Dan: 1:11:36

and we see that and we've researched it with the University of Wollongong. We're presenting it at the HSEC New South Wales Mining Conference around it. But the thing is, out of the 300 workplaces that we've worked with, we've probably only had 10 workplaces that have actually done that.

Ryan: 1:11:51

So, hypothetically, if technology could implement all of those things, that would be your kind of ideal technology to actually, you know, treat mental health Well, having experts in X field, for example, like we, and it's not competition, it's collaboration, like Flourish DX they use technology, check them out.

Dan: 1:12:12

They do a fantastic job around psychosocial risk management, new Psych around that clinical support or cyber clinic using sort of AI and telehealth and things like that.

Dan: 1:12:23

But then you've got your education and your training organisation. So it's the collaborative approach with that, with individuals, I really feel like I can manage a mental illness with the things that we educate and we talk about. But it is having that level of self-awareness and checking in with yourself that you do have a mental health. But use the continuum, use the scale one to 10. Where am I at on that scale, one being the worst you've ever felt, 10 being the best you've ever felt, and then that can give you an understanding of where you're at. Then look at, well, what's affecting me If I'm at two, what are the things that are sliding me down that continuum? So you understand those contributing factors, changes, challenges and adversities.

Dan: 1:13:03

So if financial pressures is your biggest challenge, going to see a psychiatrist is not going to be your best support. You need to go and see a financial planner, an accountant. So if we identify what the challenges are, it can help us then navigate and work through them. But then we yeah, it's understanding that. Then it's how do we change? Like, when you're at two on the continuum, not at eight, what are you noticing yourself that changes? You're probably snappy, you're withdrawn, you're not sleeping, you're drinking more than you usually would, so we need to use them as like alarm bells. Something's not quite right, because when there's a change.

Ryan: 1:13:40

We need to have a check-in. I think like these are all awesome points, but it's like simplifying it.

Dan: 1:13:45

Even more.

Ryan: 1:13:45

Yeah, like I think you know you take a lot of the low socioeconomic demographics. So you know, know you're not a. This education isn't available or they don't know about. It's not, it's not in their um social circles, like we talk to each other this is something that comes up with all my mates at least once, twice, three times a day. But then you go to a different demographic and this conversation is never even had, or it's it's like trying to get access to these, these um markets. So, like, what's your you know solution for that, apart from, you know, obviously educating as many people as possible?

Dan: 1:14:21

but yeah, and look our model. It's, in terms of scalability, like we've got a great, fantastic team and we do so much great stuff. But I think why we are successful in what we're doing is because we have the human connection and we're there on the front lines, face-to-face. We're underground in coal mines with them in their crib rooms, like we're doing, and it's resource heavy and it's-.

Don Sanka: 1:14:41

That 500,000 number. Was that face-to-face, Face-to-face?

Dan: 1:14:44

Wow, and that's it's hard.

Don Sanka: 1:14:47

And.

Dan: 1:14:47

I've been doing it for 10 years and you can tell I've got your head shows how hard it is. I think that's what we do really well, but we've got a team of what? 15? And we've been able to achieve that. But yeah, I'm all for other solutions or using technology and being able to reach more people, but I really feel, with a lot of this stuff, it's the human connection, it's the building, the rapport, the trust and and things like that. Where, and then having the infrastructures around that, that's that's, yeah, that's where the magic happens I met you like five years ago.

Don Sanka: 1:15:20

Was that five, five years? Yeah yeah and um, we were trying to look at a partner. We we had this mental health blueprint that we built ourselves. Go on, uh, we had a social impact division at that time and we were working with one of the largest mental health solution providers in Australia. I won't name who it is. They actually said to me if you really want to make a difference, there's only one person that you should talk to. And gave me your number. Really.

Dan: 1:15:50

Did you tell me that?

Don Sanka: 1:15:51

Yeah, cam and I were at the airport. Called you said mate got your number. And then it was pretty much exactly what you were looking at building. Yeah, so we were looking at building this blueprint and he told us exactly what he's doing and said that's exactly what we want to do. And your passion hasn't changed. You've been fighting the battle since then, like it's been, you've been, you've been fighting the battle since then like it's still the same.

Don Sanka: 1:16:15

I appreciate that nothing's changed except for the fact that you've trained 500 000 people instead of 6 000. Yeah, and yeah, it's been so that's it.

Magnus: 1:16:23

That's an incredible effort, well done no, thank you.

Dan: 1:16:25

And it's not just me, it's our team. Yeah, we've got some fantastic team members and that's the thing it's. I've never wanted mental health movement. It's about me, it's about our team and it's about the work that we do and the people that we get to connect with and support.

Don Sanka: 1:16:37

Chris still with you? No, he moved on last year. Yeah, but you had all those people right to the journey. They were all passionate. They all wanted to solve the same problem.

Magnus: 1:16:45

I was going to sidestep slightly and put my M26 hat on, so I'd speak about spirit, mind and body in that order, and I think that I'm very spirit-led and instinctive. What are your thoughts on spirituality and that being instinctively led?

Dan: 1:17:00

Yeah, it's interesting Like I got brought up Catholic. I went to a Catholic primary school, christian Brothers High School. So, yeah, I definitely believe in something. There's something out there greater than ourselves. I definitely believe in something. There's something out there greater than ourselves. I definitely believe in that. I believe that, yeah, what you put out there, you get back. You treat people, you treat yourself well, you treat the people around you well. You get good energy. I really do believe in that and the way you think and your actions and your behaviours it puts off energy to the universe. If you want to talk about it In terms of trust, I do trust my gut.

Dan: 1:17:33

That's probably one thing I didn't do a lot of. I got caught up in the moment or I was a chameleon, or I was a people pleaser or all those different things where now I'll probably take a little bit more time where you step back a little bit, press pause. I'll ask my missus people that I trust and get a bit more and then press pause and make a decision and trust that gut. You don't feel quite right and something's there. You need to look at that. And the times in my life I look back when I had that feeling and I didn't listen to it.

Magnus: 1:18:02

I'm like fuck you're so dumb, we all have that, and that's with your head getting in the way. So yeah, big, big advocate of trusting your gut.

Dan: 1:18:10

Yeah. So there, yeah, probably those things yeah.

Magnus: 1:18:14

Fantastic. Are we ready to jump into the quickfire? Questions yet, boys.

Don Sanka: 1:18:17

I love this. I think that's it.

Dan: 1:18:20

Head on Ready.

Magnus: 1:18:24

Yeah, I like them.

Dan: 1:18:26

What's one word you'd use to describe your?

Magnus: 1:18:30

mental health journey Ongoing what?

Dan: 1:18:36

should we all be doing more of. Yeah, that's a, it's a tough one what should we all be doing?

Magnus: 1:18:40

less of sleep for?

Dan: 1:18:41

you. I think we we need to be doing less of the things that we know are not good. And I'm not judging. I've been guilty of that, being guilty of that where you're not well, but you're not willing to give up the things that have made you not well.

Magnus: 1:18:55

Yep, what advice would you give 18-year-old Dan?

Dan: 1:19:02

You don't have to do it on your own.

Magnus: 1:19:04

The most valuable lesson rugby league taught you.

Dan: 1:19:08

Hard work trumps talent.

Magnus: 1:19:12

The biggest myth about mental health that you'd like to smash.

Dan: 1:19:16

You can live with a mental illness and be mentally healthy.

Magnus: 1:19:19

What's your go-to self-care ritual?

Dan: 1:19:23

Intentions, gratitude, ice bath exercise connection.

Magnus: 1:19:28

The best piece of advice that you ever received.

Dan: 1:19:31

You don't have to be the smartest person in the room, but get the smartest people around you and the magic happens.

Magnus: 1:19:37

Who's the toughest opponent you ever faced on the footy field?

Dan: 1:19:42

That's a tough one. Petro Sivinaseva was a very tough individual.

Magnus: 1:19:49

What's the most misunderstood thing about resilience tough?

Dan: 1:19:53

individual.

Magnus: 1:19:51

What's the most misunderstood thing about resilience? That everyone thinks that they've got it?

Dan: 1:19:59

Coffee or pre-workout, coffee and pre-workout.

Ryan: 1:20:04

I don't want to stimulate.

Magnus: 1:20:06

Your morning must have routine.

Dan: 1:20:08

Yeah, definitely, obviously trying to get that. Seven to nine hours, yeah, but waking up before everyone else is up, which is it's always, it's just that quiet time. But, yeah, ice bath, intentions, gratitude, trying to get exercise in and planning your day, that's a big one, understanding what you're about to rip into.

Magnus: 1:20:29

Yep, if you could change one thing about how Australia handles mental health, what would that be?

Don Sanka: 1:20:36

See, that would have been a better question.

Dan: 1:20:37

Yeah, I think we need to address the elephant in the room. We need to stop tiptoeing around it, we need to have the tough conversations and we need to identify what the real root causes are, because when we do that, then we can yeah, treat the cause, not the symptom, a quote or mantra you live by. Yeah, I think it's. When I do bad, I feel bad when I do good.

Magnus: 1:21:07

I feel good. Well said, who inspires you right now?

Dan: 1:21:15

To be honest, it's my wife and kids. I know that's cliche, but for me I've been very selfish throughout my whole life, where it was all about me and it was me, me, me and the victim and whatever it was. Where I think I'm sort of come out of that, where it's not about me anymore, it's about me trying to be the best I can be for them.

Magnus: 1:21:33

The most valuable advice that you could leave with our listeners.

Dan: 1:21:40

Yeah, I think. Just know you are important. Your struggles do matter. The toughest thing you've ever been through is the toughest thing you've ever been through. There is always someone worse off, but that doesn't mean you should dismiss what you're going through and, where you're at, acknowledge them. Where you're at, know that it will pass. You may not see any light at the end of the tunnel at the moment, but it will pass. Some of the head spaces I've been in. I never thought I'd see that light, but there is always that light and if you can't get someone else to help you see that light, or with you until you see that light, know that you're not alone, and, yeah, I think that's… All right.

Magnus: 1:22:19

My final question define mastery in one word?

Dan: 1:22:27

I'm going to go. Two words failure and perseverance. You don't learn unless you don't fail.

Magnus: 1:22:34

Mate, awesome conversation. Love your insights, love the work that you're doing with the mental health movement Fantastic. Thank you for coming in.

Dan: 1:22:41

Thanks, jens, I really enjoyed that, ryan Don.

Don Sanka: 1:22:44

Mate, I was hoping to get some insights into how to invest into a company to make a billion dollars. But all good Cheers man. It seems like an impossible problem to solve right now.

Dan: 1:22:55

It might be one we can try and come up with ourselves.

Don Sanka: 1:22:59

I think we've got pretty close to it with this one. I'm on the board for this one. That's exciting.

Magnus: 1:23:05

Thanks gents, Thanks guys. Hope you enjoyed this exciting episode of the Mastering Podcast. If you got value from today's conversation, hit that subscribe button now and share this episode with a friend. Until next time.